Phoenix ownership

[matt_gsxr]

Raw taking on Phoenix supply would make sense for them (more boxes to shift, same supply chain), so that might work out well.

Regarding them having a diverse range of cars, the only flaw in the plan is that none are appropriate for the larger gentleman.

I'd be intrigued how many units of Phoenix vs Fulcrum vs Striker would ship if they were supplied by the same firm. The sales dominance of the Fury over the Phoenix was at least partly due to the excellent work of Mark Fisher and the Kit Car workshop.

Phoenix by name, phoenix by nature perhaps.


Matt

[jeffw]

Pitched into the same market the Fury will always sell more than the Phoenix. Being wider in the cockpit area as well as a full screen/weather gear option would sell it to a lot of people. The Phoenix will always be the poor relation but I bet you would sell more Phoenixes than the Fulcrum.

[RobMsport]

Depends whether they are age under 25yrs or slightly more wrinkled

[matt_gsxr]

Rob,
we are all 16 inside.

Jeff,
So, Raw need to add a windscreen then (like Mr Cyana was apparently planning).
Good idea. Should be a tried and tested formula, will just need some tweeks to the tub mould.

Matt

[Fury1630]

Pitched into the same market the Fury will always sell more than the Phoenix. Being wider in the cockpit area as well as a full screen/weather gear option would sell it to a lot of people. The Phoenix will always be the poor relation but I bet you would sell more Phoenixes than the Fulcrum.

As far as I'm aware fisher's sold far more door-less spyders than full screen & door cars, so that would suggest it was more down to marketing. One other point, a full screen is of limited value without doors as weather gear is still "difficult".

Not knocking the idea, just adding to the debate.

T

[matt_gsxr]

As far as I'm aware fisher's sold far more door-less spyders than full screen & door cars, so that would suggest it was more down to marketing. One other point, a full screen is of limited value without doors as weather gear is still "difficult".

I think you are right. The thing is when you start out building you don't know the full story. Most people think:
1) screen is a good idea because of the wind and rain (they are right) and they don't want to build a "racing car".
2) doors are difficult, they never fit right, and are an extra complication (they are right) also the manufacturer warns them of this.

So, they order a car with a screen and no doors.

They don't realise that without side-windows that the screen is compromised, and that is why they should have bought doors. Then it is too late.

FWIW: Caterham and Westfield don't have doors, and they seem to ship a few units (those removable door things that they have are rubbish).


I think that a Phoenix with a screen would give the Fury some tough competition, especially if the company supporting the Phoenix was as strong as KCW or Mark Fisher were.

Just thoughts.

Matt

[jeffw]

I think you will find an already small market (less than 20 units per year) just gets fragmented further. If the Phoenix was that good it would not be a dormant project for two separate companies (Cyana & Rainbird). It is a very small niche market in a very small niche market. I would be very surprised if you could shift 10 Phoenixs a year (with or without the look killing screen). And there is no money in selling 10 £8K kits a year (well maybe £8K all up if your are lucky).

[matt_gsxr]

Agreed, its difficult to make money.

The only way to make proper money would be to get away from the "kit" image, in the same way that Caterham and the Ariel Atom seem to have managed.

"kit" equates in peoples minds with scrap yards, Duttons, beards, grubby fingernails, breakdowns, boring middle aged blokes with a passion for real ale and gear ratios.

Actually some of my favourite things!

Matt

[jeffw]

middle aged blokes with beards ? You are starting to worry me now (checks face, no beard...thank god)

[RobMsport]

The difficulty with emulating Caterham , image wise , is sales volume . Once that's achieved then factory builds would follow for the well off lazy or no skills/ time buyers. Bingo --- the new car image off the peg would follow . BUT it needs regular race wins from many drivers of the one 'make' which Jeremy did achieve if you include all his designs A tough act to follow