JPSC Forum

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Kit car emissions

Taken from www.gov

Road Cars

Improving air quality and safety

Kit cars
4.10 Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.
4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.
4.12 Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new.
4.13 When new vehicles were first required to be fitted with catalytic converters around 1992 (Euro 1 emissions standard), kit car makers typically used older engines which were not fitted with catalytic converters, hence the justification for age-appropriate testing of emissions based on date of engine manufacture or first use. The majority of the fleet is now vehicles up to 25 years old whose engines are fitted with catalytic converters, providing plenty of choice to the kit car builder.

Question.

Are you content with our proposal to require kit cars to meet the latest MOT standards, removing the current rule where vehicles are tested to MOT standards according to the age of their engine?

The consultation period begins on Friday 2 February 2018 and runs until Friday 2 March 2018. Please ensure that your response reaches us before the closing date. If you would like further copies of this consultation document, it can be found at https:// www.gov.uk/dft#consultations or you can contact us using the details below if you need alternative formats (Braille, audio CD, etc.).
Please send consultation responses to: Robert Lloyd-Smith
Zone 1/33, Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
LONDON SW1P 4DR
Email to: ivs.consult@dft.gsi.gov.uk
When responding, please state whether you are responding as an individual or representing the views of an organisation. If responding on behalf of a larger organisation, please make it clear who the organisation represents and, where applicable, how the views of members were assembled.
A list of the main representative bodies consulted is attached at Annex E. If you have any suggestions of others who may wish to be involved in this process please contact us.

Annex E: List of those notified of the consultation
Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) National Motor Dealers Association (NMDA)
Vehicle Bodybuilders and Repairers Association (VBRA) National Caravan Council (NCC)
Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle Converters Association (WAVCA) British Independent Motor Traders Association (BIMTA) American Import Agents Association (AIAA)
Niche Vehicle Network (NVN)
National Trailer Towing Association (NTTA)
Recovery Equipment Manufacturers and Suppliers Association (REMSA) Road Safety Markings Association (RSMA)
Freight Transport Association (FTA)
Road Haulage Association (RHA)
Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT)
Transport for London (TfL)
Local Government Association (LGA)
Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership (LowCVP)

So whats the plan, do we reply as a forum or do it individually ?

Seems a bit unfair to get an old engine through new regs. If the manufactures can't do it how is the average builder supposed to?

I suppose you'd have to have two maps, an IVA one and a driving one. I believe that the new TVR has a sport button to get around this very problem.

Part of the consultation addresses the issue of cheating emissions a knee jerk from the VW Desiel problem
But certainly you would want a road map and a circuit map

It's the "MOT emissions at the time of registration" which is perhaps the most concerning - ie. the requirement could change driven by something otherwise completely unrelated to it.

It'd be almost impossible for an after-market ECU and exhaust to get kit car emissions levels down to NEDC / WLTP levels for the same base engine (and how on earth would it ever be tested), but the MOT limits will presumably be gradually tightened as new emissions levels drop on new cars as otherwise they will become irrelevant. For example, in say 10 years almost all tin tops on the road will be WLTP compliant, so would MOT emissions be tightened such that someone registering a kit in 10 years time will inevitably struggle?

ruaricoles wrote: the MOT limits will presumably be gradually tightened as new emissions levels drop on new cars as otherwise they will become irrelevant. For example, in say 10 years almost all tin tops on the road will be WLTP compliant, so would MOT emissions be tightened such that someone registering a kit in 10 years time will inevitably struggle?

sound like the death of the kit car......

but could they lower the current MOT standard as a back dated target to hit ?

Sound like if youre thinking of a car best build one now.

Would it be possible to re-chassis a car and then re body it ? is that a different type of inspection and not the full IVA

WLTP will not apply
The main problem is for new builders who have not gone through IVA by September 2018

It’s the cliff edge I am particularly concerned with. NO LEAD TIME

Who has responded to the consultation?

Come on people I hate the “I’m alright jack” attitude, think of when you built your car and support those in mid build.
I have responded and have asked for the current engine age emissions to remain because it will deliver the consultations aim just over a slightly longer period and have asked for a 4 year lead time to any drastic changes to give those in build to be able to complete.
The kit replica market would be devastated if say a Chesil Speedster could not use a VW flat 4 or an SS100 Jaguar, C & D types could use those beautiful Jag straight 6

Please respond

Hi all
I now see that Jaguar are going to produce 25 "continuation" D types on the basis that they planned 100 in the fifties but stopped production at 75 as the cars had become uncompetitive.
But it's all right apparently to produce 25 more now, at £1 million a pop, authentic to the extent of using the XK engine, no seat belts etc, if what I read is true. How does that stack up regarding emissions standards??
I suppose it is different if you are a millionaire, presumably another set of rules apply...

billywhizz27 wrote:Hi all
I now see that Jaguar are going to produce 25 "continuation" D types on the basis that they planned 100 in the fifties but stopped production at 75 as the cars had become uncompetitive.
But it's all right apparently to produce 25 more now, at £1 million a pop, authentic to the extent of using the XK engine, no seat belts etc, if what I read is true. How does that stack up regarding emissions standards??
I suppose it is different if you are a millionaire, presumably another set of rules apply...

Some of these will end up in far flung countries with very different rules and if it's anything like the e-types and xkss recreations they will not be road legal In the EU

billywhizz27 wrote:Hi all
I now see that Jaguar are going to produce 25 "continuation" D types on the basis that they planned 100 in the fifties but stopped production at 75 as the cars had become uncompetitive.
But it's all right apparently to produce 25 more now, at £1 million a pop, authentic to the extent of using the XK engine, no seat belts etc, if what I read is true. How does that stack up regarding emissions standards??
I suppose it is different if you are a millionaire, presumably another set of rules apply...

They are not road legal and are not sold as such. They are being made for historic racing.

4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.

this rule applies in all other european countries since ever....the emission-standards are related to the reg-date, never the engine-age. hence 1992 onwards all newly registered cars needed a catylitc converter and matching induction system. (plus appropiate noise-limits, OBD connection, tank-fumes collector in carbon canister etc...)
in uk people had been lucky until today not having to fullfill such requests. even UK might leave the EU soon....it will be still part of europe....so such rules will come sooner or later....no way around.....