Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

For general chat, questions etc about cars designed by JP - the main forum
Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:37 am

Hello all

My R1ot is fitted with an early, originally carbed, R1 engine. This would be fine, except that the last owner fitted GSXR 750 throttle bodies and DTA management. This set-up is dreadful, no torque below 5000 rpm, it fluffs and stalls often and only produces just over 100bhp. The installation of the new ECU has involved much hacking of the Yamaha wiring and the production of a new crank trigger wheel for the ignition. It has a cheapy electronic dash and a variety of irritating electrical gremlins, including one that flattens the battery in 2 days... and an intermittent charge fault too.

I considered taking it up to Northampton Motorsport to get it set up better, but they suggested that they couldn't get any more power than the OE carbed Yamaha set-up and that I also need to fit a full air box before I take it. The airbox would be a good thing because the induction noise is shattering. I also need to rethink the exhaust as it's far too noisy for most trackdays.

Fine, but it seems to me that I might well be better getting another donor bike and reverting to OE spec. Consequently, I've been looking at damaged R1s and Fazers. Early carbed R1s with good mechanicals are rare now, so I was wondering if a later, injected one, or a Fazer motor, would fit my existing engine mounts. I've been told that the 2008/9-on 'big bang' motor is different, but that the previous models might well be ok. However, no one I have spoken to at Yamaha dealers and even breakers has been able to confirm, and I've only had a quick look at a complete and undamaged 2005 R1 to compare.

I'm trying to make a decision about which direction to go. If I have to fabricate a new engine cradle to install an injected R1 motor, then I might as well buy a smashed zzr1400 and get the extra torque and 190bhp, but if it's a straight bolt-in, it would be the quickest way to resolve the faults.

I'd be really grateful for any advice or recommendations.

martin
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:30 pm
Name: Martin
Location: Southampton

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby martin » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:54 pm

How about returning it to carbs?

If you are local to me I could lend you a set of carbs, I bought them for a project that never happened but do not want to sell them, but you are welcome to borrow them to see if this would resolve your issues.

Regards,

Martin

Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:19 pm

martin wrote:How about returning it to carbs?

If you are local to me I could lend you a set of carbs, I bought them for a project that never happened but do not want to sell them, but you are welcome to borrow them to see if this would resolve your issues.

Regards,

Martin


Hi Martin

That's a very generous offer - thank you! Sadly, I'm not local, but I think that's a sensible suggestion. The GSXR throttle bodies might well work OK with a decent set-up, but I can't help thinking that returning to a Yamaha developed set of carbs and ignition, might be both cheaper and more straightforward than trying to fix what the previous owner couldn't.

I've had quite a bit of steerage from BEC owners on the Locost site. Now I know that the early injection motors are likely to fit straight in, but might not be ideal. Hmm...

Regards

Alister

CRAIGR
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:19 am
Name: CRAIG

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby CRAIGR » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:53 am

As the Riot is a minimalistic car anyway I would buy a complete suitable r1 loom ,carbs and air box ,dash,and fit the lot inc handlebar switches as well . Buy the parts from one seller off one bike as when wiring my 5pw r1 I found some quirky little differences in switchgear. I would see that as the easiest most cost effective solution.

Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:43 pm

CRAIGR wrote:As the Riot is a minimalistic car anyway I would buy a complete suitable r1 loom, carbs and air box ,dash,and fit the lot inc handlebar switches as well . Buy the parts from one seller off one bike as when wiring my 5pw r1 I found some quirky little differences in switchgear. I would see that as the easiest most cost effective solution.


That's kinda what I was thinking. I was thinking of getting a complete bike so that I could scavenge all of the parts from a known (to be ok) machine. I wouldn't be trying to resolve the quirky issues that the previous owner and the people he's paid to help him have created.

I hadn't really thought that a breaker might have all the bits I might need from one bike... Hmm... Thank you.

User avatar
adithorp
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:26 am
Name: adrian thorp
Location: Hyde, Manchester

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby adithorp » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:27 pm

I'd say either return what you've got back to original spec' or update to later R1. Either 5pw (02-03) or 5vy (04-06) injection shouldn't take too much work but the mounts might need altering but it shouldn't be too hard; You would need new manifold, return fuel line, HP fuel pump and a power-commander and probably other bits... The return to original sounds simplest.

The zzr1400 is a big lump so might need a lot of tweeks to fit.

Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:27 am

Thank you for all the advice. I've been busy hunting down a smashed R1. Watching the prices, I wish I had a CAT B licence!

I decided that going back to standard would be likely to be the least exasperating way of getting my car to run as it should. I can't be bothered to try to deal with all of the problems that others have not been able to resolve before me and I am not prepared to commit to huge labour bills at specialists to do it for me. It may be an expensive choice - I'll see!

Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:50 pm

Hello again...

I didn't manage to either source a selection of bits to revert to carbs, or a whole damaged R1 with good enough components to make a worthwhile donor.

Consequently, it's 6 months later and I have recruited the help of Richard at Zen Performance in Erith. The wiring loom was a dreadful mess and I didn't really know where to start, so I thought that a race/rally control systems expert might. Whoever did the control system splice should probably not be allowed to play with sharp scissors!

Richard discovered that the immobiliser that had been installed for IVA had been used to switch power to the fuel pumps. The relay was not up to the job and had scorched, leaving some circuits live: one of the battery drains.

There was insufficient power to run the hpfp efficiently, particularly at high revs. This was likely the principle cause of power loss. I asked Richard to strip out all of the interesting wiring and start again. Now all circuits are appropriately switched, fused and relayed from a buzz bar and there are no longer 6 wires to the +ve terminal of the battery!

I bought a GSXR air box/filter for it and Richard's colleague is modifying the shatteringly noisy exhaust to mate up to Jeremy's original re-packable silencer that mounts across to the back chassis rail.

Once that's all on, it's going back on the rollers to be remapped. I'm really excited! I'm also slightly disappointed that I had to farm out the work!

I should have it back in a week or two.

User avatar
adithorp
Posts: 1159
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:26 am
Name: adrian thorp
Location: Hyde, Manchester

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby adithorp » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:12 pm

Fingers crossed.

Toed64
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:39 am
Name: Alister Monro

Re: Advice on Yamaha R1/Fazer engines

Postby Toed64 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:36 pm

adithorp wrote:Fingers crossed.


Yours too! Thank you. :)


Return to “Jeremy Philips Cars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests